Hi all. Which VPN service do you use?

Re: Which VPN?
By: HusTler to All on Sun Jul 02 2023 07:24 am

Hi all. Which VPN service do you use?

What's your use case?

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to HusTler on Sun Jul 02 2023 08:30 am

Hi all. Which VPN service do you use?

What's your use case?

I know nothing about VPN other then there are a ton of them to choose from. How do I know who is good and who is bad? I thought I'd ask the BBS world about it and maybe get some ideas. Seems to me it's hit or miss. Seems like pay now and let's see how it goes.


|12HusTler


...Have you ever asked a question you weren't supposed to ask?
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Re: Which VPN?
By: Hustler to Phigan on Sun Jul 02 2023 01:09 pm

Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to HusTler on Sun Jul 02 2023 08:30 am

Hi all. Which VPN service do you use?

What's your use case?

I know nothing about VPN other then there are a ton of them to choose from. How do I know who is good and who is bad? I thought I'd ask the BBS world about it and maybe get some ideas. Seems to me it's hit or miss. Seems like pay now and let's see how it goes.

just use the free opera vpn for your web. then you can pay for full vpn if you like it
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Hi all. Which VPN service do you use?

I use PIA (Private Internet Access) - its not particularly private or security-based; I'm going to switch to Mullvad after my account is used up.

Mullvad creates new users by user NUMBER only, meaning you can fund the account 100% anonymously - they explain it on their website in detail... IMO a really good VPN that you can fund w/o using a CC in your name.

Heck, they even released 'Mullvad Web Browser' recently that I'm testing now.



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Hi all. Which VPN service do you use?

I use FreeDome from F-Secure, part of my internet security bundle.
It allows me to chose another geographic point while setting it on, which helps to pretend being somewhere else while I'm checking some geo-blocked/geo-defined services. That's my primary use case.

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

Re: Which VPN?
By: Hustler to Phigan on Sun Jul 02 2023 01:09 pm

What's your use case?

I know nothing about VPN other then there are a ton of them to choose from.

What do you actually want it for?

IMO, here are good/valid reasons for using a VPN:

- Using geo-locked services, meaning sites or services that check what country you're in.
- Using torrents or similar file-sharing type services on a network that blocks them (public hotspots sometimes) or simply from a network other than your own.
- The above counts for any specific service where it would be advantageous to present your originating IP as somewhere else (scamming multiple rewards accounts?).

When you use those VPN services, they know what your originating IP is, what your destination IP is, and what kind of traffic you're sending to that destination. It's the same stuff that your ISP would know if you weren't using the VPN. I'm not sure what difference it makes which one of them has that information. You're already paying your ISP, so unless you have some reason not to trust them, why would you go trust some other rando any more than them? The government can get all your traffic upstream regardless of which VPN you use, your connections are easily traceable when the endpoints of the VPN are all known, and you have no idea how much logging that VPN actually does.

Outside of those reasons I mentioned, in America (other countries might have additional reasons or those reasons might be more significant there), I think VPN use gives people a false sense of security.

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to Hustler on Mon Jul 03 2023 08:44 am

- Using torrents or similar file-sharing type services on a network that blocks them (public hotspots sometimes) or simply from a network other

When you use those VPN services, they know what your originating IP is, what your destination IP is, and what kind of traffic you're sending to that destination. It's the same stuff that your ISP would know if you weren't using the VPN. I'm not sure what difference it makes which one of them has that information. You're already paying your ISP, so unless you have some reason not to trust them, why would you go trust some other rando any more than them?

If you do any torrenting, some ISPs actively monitor torrent activity, whereas a VPN might (probably?) not. ISPs can send an email warning if they detect something they think shouldn't be downloaded/shared via torrent. You probably shouldn't trust your ISP with that information..

Nightfox

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Nightfox to Phigan on Mon Jul 03 2023 10:01 am

of them has that information. You're already paying your ISP, so unless you have some reason not to trust them, why would you go trust some other rando any more than them?

If you do any torrenting, some ISPs actively monitor torrent activity, whereas a VPN might (probably?) not. ISPs can send an email warning if they detect something they think shouldn't be downloaded/shared via torrent. You probably shouldn't trust your ISP with that information..

that's a good way to get kicked off most torrent sites unless you have an approved vpn.
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Re: Which VPN?
By: Nightfox to Phigan on Mon Jul 03 2023 10:01 am

If you do any torrenting, some ISPs actively monitor torrent activity, whereas a VPN might (probably?) not. ISPs can send an email warning if they detect something they think shouldn't be downloaded/shared via torrent. You probably shouldn't trust your ISP with that information..

People have said this, but I haven't witnessed it or heard it from anyone who has themselves. Why would ISPs want to turn you in? They want your money. It's usually when they get a letter from a law firm that they either give the lawyers your information or they in turn send you a letter about it. Cox does the latter, luckily, without giving your information to the lawyers. There are plenty of ISPs that do both, or only the former even. But it's usually not the ISP watching out for whether you're pirating.

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to Nightfox on Mon Jul 03 2023 02:55 pm

People have said this, but I haven't witnessed it or heard it from anyone who has themselves. Why would ISPs want to turn you in? They want your money. It's usually when they get a letter from a law firm that they either give the lawyers your information or they in turn send you a letter about

i personally got a letter for torrenting an spongebob pack from tpb for
my god daughter. it was stupid to do it from my home ip and not my server.

the letter came from my isp spectrum and it was a warning and they told me which service reported me.

this was within the last couple of years
so i have a major isp and i'm pretty sure it's automatic with that stuff.

many years before that, like in 2011 i got a public domain torrent and again a bottom feeder company reported me to roadrunner. they made it so every website i visited went to a page where i was supposed to call customer service. then i just said there was a problem with my router and there was no pw.

now the way they did it was pretty stupid and it took me a while to catch on because i used a different dns server for most of my computers so things were working fine in most cases.

so yeah, you can get in trouble or atleast get a letter.
I wouldn't advise anybody to use any public torrent site.
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IMO, here are good/valid reasons for using a VPN:

- Using geo-locked services, meaning sites or services that check what country you're in.
- Using torrents or similar file-sharing type services on a network that blocks them (public hotspots sometimes) or simply from a network other

Thanks for the explanation. I thought a VPN would hide my IP by changing it and would also encrypt my connection therefore prying eyes could not steal my passwords and user names. I've tried windscribe and it slows down my connection speed. ProtonVPN does the same.

... GeoWorks while Win dozes

Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to Nightfox on Mon Jul 03 2023 02:55 pm

Re: Which VPN?
By: Nightfox to Phigan on Mon Jul 03 2023 10:01 am

If you do any torrenting, some ISPs actively monitor torrent activity, whereas a VPN might (probably?) not. ISPs can send an email warning if t detect something they think shouldn't be downloaded/shared via torrent. probably shouldn't trust your ISP with that information..

People have said this, but I haven't witnessed it or heard it from anyone wh
or they in turn send you a letter about it. Cox does the latter, luckily, w ng.

They want your money, however they want manage their own network without government intervention. In order to keep autonomy, they must demonstrate to regulatory agencies they are self policing.

I used to work with a guy that liked to read detective novels, and he would us e a line about a gardener knows what's growing in his patch. It relates to managing an area or system, and knowing what's going on officially and behind the scenes. An ISP being transparent and reporting suspicioous activity
keeps the regulatory agencies from spying on it's customer's activity.

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: HusTler to Phigan on Tue Jul 04 2023 04:43 am

Thanks for the explanation. I thought a VPN would hide my IP by changing it and would also encrypt my connection therefore prying eyes could not steal my passwords and user names.

You get most of that by just using TLS (e.g. HTTPS). But yeah, VPNs can help to hide your IP address or have you masquerade as an IP host from another network/location.

I've tried windscribe and it slows down
my connection speed. ProtonVPN does the same.

You don't normally use a VPN all the time for all traffic: Just when you need it and only for the apps or systems that need it (not your entire LAN).
--
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Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to Hustler on Mon Jul 03 2023 08:44:05

- Using torrents or similar file-sharing type services on a network that

I find that having a seedbox in Amsterdam is a slightly better option over VPN for torrents... I have a browser extension configured to send the .torrent/magnet to the seedbox, where it downloads/seeds and I sftp it down to my local nas a few minutes later. This way I don't have existing, long running services on my local network. Also, worth noting, the better sites for Torrents expect you to keep an upload/download ratio, so you generally need to keep your files seeding. YMMV of course.


--
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tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Moondog to Phigan on Tue Jul 04 2023 10:36 am

They want your money, however they want manage their own network without government intervention. In order to keep autonomy, they must demonstrate to regulatory agencies they are self policing.

Sure, I get all that, but I still haven't seen it happen. Plus, there is plenty of torrent traffic that is perfectly legal. OS distros, outdated drivers, shareware packs, etc. Has it happened to you that your ISP contacted you about something without them getting a notification from a lawyer first?

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: HusTler to Phigan on Tue Jul 04 2023 04:43 am

- Using geo-locked services, meaning sites or services that check what country you're in.

Thanks for the explanation. I thought a VPN would hide my IP by changing it and would also encrypt my connection therefore prying eyes could not

Exactly what I'm talking about above. Geo-locked services check your originating IP, and if it isn't on a network in a certain country, that service doesn't allow you access. When you use a VPN, the destination host (the service), thinks your originating IP is the VPN's endpoint. So, yes, that means the service you're connecting to doesn't see what your real IP is, but that doesn't mean nobody else does. The VPN service certainly knows your real originating IP, at the very least. Say you were _actually_ worried about keeping some government agency from knowing where you were connecting to.. if the agency knows every endpoint of a VPN service (which they do), they can monitor them at the router level and even without packet inspection make very well educated guesses as to which outbound connection matches which inbound connection.

As for encrypting your connection, like DM said, your traffic to most websites is already encrypted. If you are, say, on McDonald's (public) wifi, and you wanted to connect to a telnet BBS from there, a VPN might keep others on the McDonald's network from seeing your BBS password, but it wouldn't keep others on the VPN's network from seeing it. In cases like that, I just SSH to my home network and tunnel through there, making my house the VPN.

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Tracker1 to Phigan on Tue Jul 04 2023 03:20 pm

I find that having a seedbox in Amsterdam is a slightly better option over

For sure, such a seedbox is probably the best option for torrenting. When you torrent, even for just a little, you're announcing that you will also upload. It's just how torrents work.

Personally, I recommend against using torrents at all. All the stuff is on usenet. It's just getting harder and harder to find and get stuff off usenet these days, especially for free.

My torrent-over-VPN use case is when I'm at an airport waiting for a flight. There's a website that gives magnet links for episodes of TV shows you set in a list. For whatever reasons, torrents don't work on the wifi at some of the airports I frequent. So, to get a few episodes of shows to watch while on the plane, I use a VPN to get around whatever's blocking the torrents. In this situation, I'm just a temporary device in a very public area, so I'm not too concerned about what information ends up at the torrent tracker.

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On 05 Jul 2023, Phigan said the following...

Personally, I recommend against using torrents at all. All the stuff is
on usenet. It's just getting harder and harder to find and get stuff off usenet these days, especially for free.

for movies i've gotten probably 2 of those emails from my ISP over the entire time they've been doing it, and each time it has been a movie that is currently in theaters or was just released on dvd/bluray. (Shazam! and Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs lol)

only tv show i've ever had it happen with is Schitt's Creek. and funnily enough it only happened for the "crummier" copy of it (i ended up getting it twice cause h265 files aren't supported on the dvd player i sometimes use as a lazy data dvd-r player)

i guess what i'm saying is if you're smart and avoid brand new stuff for at least a little while (or if you have to, watch them on something like https://tinyzonetv.to/ https://sflix.to/ etc) it's very unlikely you'll ever
actually receive punishment .. which is only, at least for my ISP, being banned from having an account for xx amount of time..

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to Moondog on Wed Jul 05 2023 01:34 pm

Sure, I get all that, but I still haven't seen it happen. Plus, there is plenty of torrent traffic that is perfectly legal. OS distros, outdated drivers, shareware packs, etc. Has it happened to you that your ISP contacted you about something without them getting a notification from a lawyer first?

lawyers don't contact the isps. the content owners hire a 3rd party company to handle everything.
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Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to Tracker1 on Wed Jul 05 2023 02:01 pm

Personally, I recommend against using torrents at all. All the stuff is on usenet. It's just getting harder and harder to find and get stuff off usenet these days, especially for free.

usenet is shitty for grabbing files.
plus you have to pay for the service. AND you need to use an indexer site usually.

top sites or torrent sites are the best way to do it, always has been.

My torrent-over-VPN use case is when I'm at an airport waiting for a flight. There's a website that gives magnet links for episodes of TV shows you set in a list. For whatever reasons, torrents don't work on the wifi at some of

any decent torrent site would ban you for your methods.
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People have said this, but I haven't witnessed it or heard it from
anyone who has themselves. Why would ISPs want to turn you in? They want your money. It's usually when they get a letter from a law firm that
they either give the lawyers your information or they in turn send you a letter about it. Cox does the latter, luckily, without giving your information to the lawyers. There are plenty of ISPs that do both, or
only the former even. But it's usually not the ISP watching out for whether you're pirating.

I get a letter on xfinity anytime I torrent w/o a VPN. Standard issue.



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On 2023-07-03, Nightfox <DIGDIST!Nightfox@vert.synchro.net> wrote:

Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to Hustler on Mon Jul 03 2023 08:44 am

- Using torrents or similar file-sharing type services on a network that blocks them (public hotspots sometimes) or simply from a network other

When you use those VPN services, they know what your originating IP is, what your destination IP is, and what kind of traffic you're sending to that destination. It's the same stuff that your ISP would know if you weren't using the VPN. I'm not sure what difference it makes which one of
them has that information. You're already paying your ISP, so unless you have some reason not to trust them, why would you go trust some other rando any more than them?

If you do any torrenting, some ISPs actively monitor torrent activity, whereas a VPN might (probably?) not. ISPs can send an email warning if they detect something they think shouldn't be downloaded/shared via torrent. You probably shouldn't trust your ISP with that information..

Nightfox

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þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

The only stuff I pirated it's some old episodes from Northern Exposure
and The Twilight Zone collection from the 50's. The last one should have
been under public domain long ago. 70 years of Copyright it's abusive.

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On 2023-07-02, HusTler <PLANETCA!HusTler@vert.synchro.net> wrote:

Hi all. Which VPN service do you use?

VPN as is, no. Sometimes Tor/I2PD to talk to some uk/ru people against
the war in a good manered way.

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to Moondog on Wed Jul 05 2023 01:34 pm

drivers, shareware packs, etc. Has it happened to you that your ISP contacted you about something without them getting a notification from a lawyer first?

I know I'm not the person you were replying to, but yes, I've gotten an email from my ISP for something they saw being transferred over BitTorrent, and it said people could take legal action.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to HusTler on Wed Jul 05 2023 01:46 pm

Exactly what I'm talking about above. Geo-locked services check your originating IP, and if it isn't on a network in a certain country, that service doesn't allow you access. When you use a VPN, the destination host (the service), thinks your originating IP is the VPN's endpoint. So, yes, that means the service you're connecting to doesn't see what your real IP is, but that doesn't mean nobody else does. The VPN service certainly

I've heard some services are able to detect whether you're using a VPN and still deny access based on that.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: paulie420 to Phigan on Wed Jul 05 2023 08:55 pm

I get a letter on xfinity anytime I torrent w/o a VPN. Standard issue.

What's the gist of it? Is it just from them or do they say they were notified by so and so? Can you test torrenting an Ubuntu ISO or something? :)

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Nightfox to Phigan on Thu Jul 06 2023 09:05 am

I know I'm not the person you were replying to, but yes, I've gotten an email from my ISP for something they saw being transferred over BitTorrent, and it said people could take legal action.

Very interesting. Do they threaten to discontinue service or is it just a "hey, just so you know..." type of thing? And, is that ISP your only option for internet service where you are?

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Nightfox to Phigan on Thu Jul 06 2023 09:09 am

I've heard some services are able to detect whether you're using a VPN and still deny access based on that.

They most certainly can. But I would very much suggest anyone to leave an ISP that does such things :).

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to Nightfox on Thu Jul 06 2023 12:42 pm

I know I'm not the person you were replying to, but yes, I've gotten
an email from my ISP for something they saw being transferred over
BitTorrent, and it said people could take legal action.

Very interesting. Do they threaten to discontinue service or is it just a "hey, just so you know..." type of thing? And, is that ISP your only option for internet service where you are?

It's more of a "just so you know". It's not my only option for ISP, but I've had two different ISPs send such an email.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to Nightfox on Thu Jul 06 2023 12:43 pm

I've heard some services are able to detect whether you're using a VPN
and still deny access based on that.

They most certainly can. But I would very much suggest anyone to leave an ISP that does such things :).

It's not just an ISP, but I've heard streaming services such as Netflix are starting to do this to prevent customers from using a VPN to access content that's normally not available in their country.

Nightfox

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Phigan wrote to Nightfox <=-

I've heard some services are able to detect whether you're using a VPN and still deny access based on that.

They most certainly can. But I would very much suggest anyone to
leave an ISP that does such things :).

In my area, or at least the location of my house, that is not an option, assuming one wants broadband/cable internet access. Yes, that's right,
there are still plenty of monopolies allowed to do business. My ISP (a major/nationwide one) is one of them.



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On 06 Jul 2023, Nightfox said the following...

It's not just an ISP, but I've heard streaming services such as Netflix are starting to do this to prevent customers from using a VPN to access content that's normally not available in their country.

yeah.. it's fairly easy to see when a connection is coming from a datacenter. i'm 13 hops from google at home and 6 from my VPS for example.. and being netflix they would probably just know who owns each of the routers.. so they don't even necessarily need an ip list.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi

I get a letter on xfinity anytime I torrent w/o a VPN. Standard issue.

What's the gist of it? Is it just from them or do they say they were notified by so and so? Can you test torrenting an Ubuntu ISO or
something? :)

Xfinity (attempts to) snoops so badly that they send a letter with the title of what you downloaded! Something to the effect of (from memory):

-----
Xfinity customer:

We've noticed that you downloaded copyrighted songs, music or data:

Top Gun - Maverick

This goes against our terms of service. This is a strike; after a second strike we will throttle or limit any data we suspect of being copyrighted. A third strike may warrant your service being terminated.

If you have any questions, please phone us at 1-800-XFINITY so we can laugh as you wait for two hours before we disconnect.

Love,
Xfinity Cable



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Re: Which VPN?
By: Nightfox to Phigan on Thu Jul 06 2023 01:44 pm

It's more of a "just so you know". It's not my only option for ISP, but I've had two different ISPs send such an email.

with letter in the mail it was a real warning.
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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: paulie420 to Phigan on Wed Jul 05 2023 08:55 pm

I get a letter on xfinity anytime I torrent w/o a VPN. Standard issue.

A letter, as in a written/printed letter sent via snail mail?

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Phigan on Thu Jul 06 2023 04:24 pm

In my area, or at least the location of my house, that is not an option, assuming one wants broadband/cable internet access. Yes, that's right, there are still plenty of monopolies allowed to do business. My ISP (a major/nationwide one) is one of them.

Yeah, it's frustrating when monopolies are allowed to continue being monopolies. Where I am, it seems there's a monopoly on cable services - There's really only one big company I can think of that offers cable services here, and it's been like that for quite a while. In the late 80s through the 90s, I remember there being maybe 3 cable companies that offered cable TV services. When broadband internet started being offered (early 2000s), that was when most of the cable companies dropped off and it got down to just one cable company.

Where I am, thankfully there are other options if you're mainly just concerned with internet service. But I know there are areas where that's not really the case.

Nightfox

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þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to paulie420 on Thu Jul 06 2023 12:40 pm

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: paulie420 to Phigan on Wed Jul 05 2023 08:55 pm

I get a letter on xfinity anytime I torrent w/o a VPN. Standard issue.

What's the gist of it? Is it just from them or do they say they were notifie

There's legitimate purposes for torrent clients. The ISP can see what you're downloading and determine if it's a linux distro or a movie

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Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-

In my area, or at least the location of my house, that is not an option, assuming one wants broadband/cable internet access. Yes, that's right, there are still plenty of monopolies allowed to do business. My ISP (a major/nationwide one) is one of them.

Yeah, it's frustrating when monopolies are allowed to continue
being monopolies. Where I am, it seems there's a monopoly on
cable services - There's really only one big company I can think
of that offers cable services here, and it's been like that for
quite a while. In the late 80s through the 90s, I remember there
being maybe 3 cable companies that offered cable TV services.
When broadband internet started being offered (early 2000s), that
was when most of the cable companies dropped off and it got down
to just one cable company.

Yes, there are a couple other cable companies in the general area here,
but it seems like they've "divvied up" the neighborhoods and everyone is
only served by ONE of them. No possible way to get the other one to
service your house. Also no Fiber in this area. I think there might be
ATT DSL type service, but who would want that. The day that somebody
knocks on my door and asks if I want the new Fiber hooked up, is the day
I cancel with my cable company.

Where I am, thankfully there are other options if you're mainly
just concerned with internet service. But I know there are areas
where that's not really the case.

Yup, here is one of those areas. Really aggravating.



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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Nightfox to paulie420 on Fri Jul 07 2023 09:47 am

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: paulie420 to Phigan on Wed Jul 05 2023 08:55 pm

I get a letter on xfinity anytime I torrent w/o a VPN. Standard issue.

A letter, as in a written/printed letter sent via snail mail?

I'm pretty sure I've received both (snail mail and email) at one time or another (love letters from ISPs regarding torrenting).
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I get a letter on xfinity anytime I torrent w/o a VPN. Standard issue

A letter, as in a written/printed letter sent via snail mail?

Letter in the mail. Xfinity in St. Helens, OR...

(And Comcast in Austin, TX years ago.)

I received two... guess I should of saved them.



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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Nightfox to Phigan on Thu Jul 06 2023 01:44 pm

It's not just an ISP, but I've heard streaming services such as Netflix are starting to do this to prevent customers from using a VPN to access content that's normally not available in their country.

Well that part _is_ totally normal, because it's against the Terms Of Service to get around their geofencing.

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: paulie420 to Phigan on Thu Jul 06 2023 06:31 pm

Xfinity (attempts to) snoops so badly that they send a letter with the title of what you downloaded! Something to the effect of (from memory):

Woooow, that really sucks. I'm pretty glad there is usenet :).

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to Nightfox on Sat Jul 08 2023 11:48 am

It's not just an ISP, but I've heard streaming services such as
Netflix are starting to do this to prevent customers from using a VPN
to access content that's normally not available in their country.

Well that part _is_ totally normal, because it's against the Terms Of Service to get around their geofencing.

That seems to be one of the main reasons people use VPNs though. I see that mentioned fairly common as a way to watch TV shows and movies on streaming services if it's not available in a certain country.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Nightfox to Phigan on Sat Jul 08 2023 12:24 pm

That seems to be one of the main reasons people use VPNs though. I see that mentioned fairly common as a way to watch TV shows and movies on streaming services if it's not available in a certain country.

arent vpns usually much much slower, though?
i wouldnt want to stream movies on a vpn.
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Xfinity (attempts to) snoops so badly that they send a letter with the of what you downloaded! Something to the effect of (from memory):

Woooow, that really sucks. I'm pretty glad there is usenet :).

I mean... nothing that a VPN or proxy doesn't quash easily. Then, with all the other technology we have - theres no way anyone sniffs what I don't want them to.

Hell, throw everything behind Tails or TOR if yer really paranoid and be done with it...

I've created a separate torrent machine that only does that. I can text message it from remote and start a search/download - so I don't even think about it anymore... just send my requests and if theres a hit I have a file waiting in my Plex or /torrent folder.



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That seems to be one of the main reasons people use VPNs though. I see mentioned fairly common as a way to watch TV shows and movies on stream services if it's not available in a certain country.

arent vpns usually much much slower, though?
i wouldnt want to stream movies on a vpn.

Most major players aren't a factor anymore... in fact at times I run ALL my traffic thru a VPN at the router. I don't see speed being the issue in 2o23.



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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Jul 08 2023 05:08 pm

That seems to be one of the main reasons people use VPNs though. I
see that mentioned fairly common as a way to watch TV shows and movies
on streaming services if it's not available in a certain country.

arent vpns usually much much slower, though?
i wouldnt want to stream movies on a vpn.

They're slower, but usually the speed you get is still plenty fast enough for at least one or two streaming devices. If it's so slow that it starts buffering a lot, you're probably not using a good VPN.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: paulie420 to Phigan on Sat Jul 08 2023 05:33 pm

Hell, throw everything behind Tails or TOR if yer really paranoid and be

I hear you're not supposed to torrent with TOR, and especially not through it. I wouldn't trust using TOR for anything that wasn't inside of TOR anyway.

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to Tracker1 on Wed Jul 05 2023 14:01:30

My torrent-over-VPN use case is when I'm at an airport waiting for a flight. There's a website that gives magnet links for episodes of TV shows you set in a list. For whatever reasons, torrents don't work on the wifi at some of the airports I frequent. So, to get a few episodes of shows to watch while on the plane, I use a VPN to get around whatever's blocking the torrents. In this situation, I'm just a temporary device in a very public area, so I'm not too concerned about what information ends up at the torrent tracker.

That's cool... since I have a seedbox anyway, I'd still just use that and then sftp the file to my local. That said, I do tend to just VPN to home over wireguard, though may switch to tailscale for convenience... I do this more for my pihole on my phone than for things like torrents though. Since that tends to be over https/sftp for me.


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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: anthk to All on Thu Jul 06 2023 08:59:37

The only stuff I pirated it's some old episodes from Northern Exposure
and The Twilight Zone collection from the 50's. The last one should have been under public domain long ago. 70 years of Copyright it's abusive.

I recently rewatched Blacksheep Squadron and The Six Million Dollar Man. I don't think either one could be made today. I do think they could do a reboot of Six Million Dollar Man (as "Bionic" or "Cyborg"), but Blacksheep just would be hard in today's sensibilities. Agreed on the excesses of Intelectual Property overall, not just Copyright.


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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to paulie420 on Thu Jul 06 2023 12:40:02

I get a letter on xfinity anytime I torrent w/o a VPN. Standard issue.

What's the gist of it? Is it just from them or do they say they were notified by so and so? Can you test torrenting an Ubuntu ISO or something? :)

The IP protection companies hired to track torrents will generally track magnet links and the torrent hosts themselves for feeds concerning things named with their IP. So they won't be tracking an Ubuntu ISO, unless that ubuntu iso is via a link named "Captain.Marvel.2019..." or similar.


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Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to Nightfox on Thu Jul 06 2023 12:42:28

I know I'm not the person you were replying to, but yes, I've gotten
an email from my ISP for something they saw being transferred over
BitTorrent, and it said people could take legal action.

Very interesting. Do they threaten to discontinue service or is it just a "hey, just so you know..." type of thing? And, is that ISP your only option for internet service where you are?

Responses will vary... Some will redirect your DNS to get you to a website to notify you, others may interrupt service in other ways. Some will forward the email/notification with a very stern warning. Some cable companies will permanently disconnect service if you see 3 notifications in a given timeframe.

A seedbox is the best option, ideally in a country that doesn't legally recognize US copyright like Amsterdam. Although it's not necessarily the cheapest option. They just throw the notifications away, not forward/redirect them to you.


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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to Nightfox on Thu Jul 06 2023 12:43:14

I've heard some services are able to detect whether you're using a VPN
and still deny access based on that.

They most certainly can. But I would very much suggest anyone to leave an ISP that does such things :).

I'm not aware of ISPs that do it... but some services (websites) will block/restrict access. Since VPNs are also used in order to anonymize access for hacking efforts.


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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Phigan on Thu Jul 06 2023 16:24:00

In my area, or at least the location of my house, that is not an option, assuming one wants broadband/cable internet access. Yes, that's right, there are still plenty of monopolies allowed to do business. My ISP (a major/nationwide one) is one of them.

If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.


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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: fusion to Nightfox on Thu Jul 06 2023 21:11:00

yeah.. it's fairly easy to see when a connection is coming from a datacenter. i'm 13 hops from google at home and 6 from my VPS for example.. and being netflix they would probably just know who owns each of the routers.. so they don't even necessarily need an ip list.

Reverse DNS is also generally pretty informative as well.


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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: paulie420 to Phigan on Thu Jul 06 2023 18:31:00

Xfinity (attempts to) snoops so badly that they send a letter with the title of what you downloaded! Something to the effect of (from memory):

That's not Xfinity, it's because that's what the DMCA notice they recieved says you are/were downloading. The ISP receives a DMCA notice from the agency representing the copyright holder. What happens from there will vary slightly, but in the US at least they are required by law to notify you, and if you don't stop seeding/feeding/uploading, or send an otherwise legal atestation that it isn't a fact, they are required to cut you aff.


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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Moondog to Phigan on Fri Jul 07 2023 11:14:00

There's legitimate purposes for torrent clients. The ISP can see what you're downloading and determine if it's a linux distro or a movie

Given how torrents/seeding works, doing such a thing at the ISP level takes a huge effort that they wouldn't really do. What the protecting agencies do is track torrent links named/related to their (long) lists of properties/brands, and from there connect to magnet and trackers to then tell who is seeding those torrents. That's how they get you.

Private trackers provide some protection, but the people working for this groups will also infiltrate private tracker networks.


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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Jul 08 2023 17:08:36

arent vpns usually much much slower, though?
i wouldnt want to stream movies on a vpn.

A good/paid VPN will not allow a connection as fast as your ISP will... but you don't need 100+mbps to watch a video stream... Most video streams are under 10Mbps.

https://www.vdocipher.com/blog/video-bandwidth-explanation#HD-FHD-UHD

While 4k content will require upwards of 25k for h264, we're at a point where many devices for 4k video will support h265 or AV1 decoding.


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Re: Which VPN?
By: Tracker1 to Phigan on Sun Jul 09 2023 02:01 pm

That's cool... since I have a seedbox anyway, I'd still just use that and then sftp the file to my local. That said, I do tend to just VPN to home over wireguard, though may switch to tailscale for convenience... I do this more for my pihole on my phone than for things like torrents though. Since that tends to be over https/sftp for me.

i'm pretty sure phigan is not a member of any decent private torrent sites, or he just hasn't been caught yet. I was staff on a big one and a medium sized one and we would ban people like this.
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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Tracker1 to Phigan on Sun Jul 09 2023 02:11 pm

The IP protection companies hired to track torrents will generally track magnet links and the torrent hosts themselves for feeds concerning things named with their IP. So they won't be tracking an Ubuntu ISO, unless that ubuntu iso is via a link named "Captain.Marvel.2019..." or similar.

dude, i got a letter for downloading a torrent of the wow client.
and i'm like they give that shit away for free. i just wanted to get it faster without going through all the updates.

they didnt care.
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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Tracker1 to Moondog on Sun Jul 09 2023 02:24 pm

Private trackers provide some protection, but the people working for this groups will also infiltrate private tracker networks.

that's possible but i've never seen that happen in the 20+ years i've been on public torrent sites.
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Tracker1 wrote to Gamgee <=-

In my area, or at least the location of my house, that is not an option, assuming one wants broadband/cable internet access. Yes, that's right, there are still plenty of monopolies allowed to do business. My ISP (a major/nationwide one) is one of them.

If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent
alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than
wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.

What?? LOL

So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet
access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at
least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?

What if I'm not home (and my cellphone is with me). How do things work
then?

Come on man.



... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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Xfinity (attempts to) snoops so badly that they send a letter with th title of what you downloaded! Something to the effect of (from memory

That's not Xfinity, it's because that's what the DMCA notice they
recieved says you are/were downloading. The ISP receives a DMCA notice from the agency representing the copyright holder. What happens from there will vary slightly, but in the US at least they are required by
law to notify you, and if you don't stop seeding/feeding/uploading, or send an otherwise legal atestation that it isn't a fact, they are
required to cut you aff.

Ah; thanks for the distinction - Xfinity is the person I get the letters from, tho... I know that bit.

I've only recieved two - one when I was dumb and one just after I moved and didn't have opsec in place.



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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 09 2023 18:33:00

Tracker1 wrote to Gamgee <=-

If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent
alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than
wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.

What?? LOL

So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet
access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at
least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?

What if I'm not home (and my cellphone is with me). How do things work then?

In some areas both Verizon and T-mobile offer what they call fixed wireless service.
This is a router that has a couple of switch ports and wireless for your inside of your home network on one side and cellular as the wan.
These kinds of connections may or may not allow you to run servers so running your bbs as an inbound server may not be possible with out routing it through some special vpn first.

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 09 2023 06:33 pm

If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent
alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than
wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.

What?? LOL

So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at
least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?

What if I'm not home (and my cellphone is with me). How do things work then?

Come on man.

I think there are some home internet services that use a cellular connection..? It's not always a phone using a cellular data connection.

Nightfox

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þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent
alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than

So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?

Come on man.

I think there are some home internet services that use a cellular connection..? It's not always a phone using a cellular data connection.

I have unlimited 30 Mbps Down and 16 Mbps Up from my smart phone. I could get a hotspot device if I chose to. I have no need to upgrade to 5G and suspect that's why I get unlimited on 4G.

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Khronos to Gamgee on Mon Jul 10 2023 09:48 am

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 09 2023 18:33:00

Tracker1 wrote to Gamgee <=-

If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than
wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.

What?? LOL

So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at
least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?

What if I'm not home (and my cellphone is with me). How do things work then?

In some areas both Verizon and T-mobile offer what they call fixed wireless This is a router that has a couple of switch ports and wireless for your ins These kinds of connections may or may not allow you to run servers so runnin

Some cell providers are very selective regarding the level of content they deliver. I've read about people having a great streaming package with their p hone, however it is tied down to 360p due to it being viewed from a phone. If
you used a cellular gateway, the provider would treat the data differently.

Of course, that discount or special would've been restricted to running off a mobile device. Even though T-mobile and other providers are offering 5g to gateway devices, there is probably a "fair access" policy in place to meter
or restrict the same level of usage you can get from fiber or cable.

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Nightfox to Gamgee on Mon Jul 10 2023 10:46 am

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 09 2023 06:33 pm

If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent
alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than
wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.

What?? LOL

So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?

What if I'm not home (and my cellphone is with me). How do things work then?

Come on man.

I think there are some home internet services that use a cellular connection

Nightfox

Yes. There are gateways or routers that have a sim card socket

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Khronos wrote to Gamgee <=-

Tracker1 wrote to Gamgee <=-

If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent
alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than
wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.

What?? LOL

So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet
access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at
least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?

What if I'm not home (and my cellphone is with me). How do things work then?

In some areas both Verizon and T-mobile offer what they call
fixed wireless service. This is a router that has a couple of
switch ports and wireless for your inside of your home network on
one side and cellular as the wan. These kinds of connections may
or may not allow you to run servers so running your bbs as an
inbound server may not be possible with out routing it through
some special vpn first.

Ahhh, OK. Didn't know about that. Sounds like a significant cost, for
likely crappy performance, and not being able to use the custom router
that I'm using now. Not even a remote chance of such a thing happening.



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Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-

If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent
alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than
wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.

What?? LOL

So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet
access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at
least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?

What if I'm not home (and my cellphone is with me). How do things work then?

Come on man.

I think there are some home internet services that use a cellular connection..? It's not always a phone using a cellular data
connection.

OK, didn't know about that being a thing. Honestly doesn't seem like a workable situation, unless maybe you really had ZERO other options.
Thanks for the info.



... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: paulie420 to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 09 2023 05:56 pm

Ah; thanks for the distinction - Xfinity is the person I get the letters fro tho... I know that bit.

Yeah, that's kinda what I was suspecting is happening. Xfinity COULD just hand over your info to those "authorized by IP holders" people (I call them lawyers), but instead they send you a letter that they got a DMCA notice.

I'm still thinking _they_ don't actually check your torrent traffic.

Not that some/other ISPs don't!

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Khronos on Mon Jul 10 2023 08:22 pm

Ahhh, OK. Didn't know about that. Sounds like a significant cost, for likely crappy performance, and not being able to use the custom router
that I'm using now. Not even a remote chance of such a thing happening.

You'd be surprised about the performance, actually. In a place where cable internet was available, and the cable company was just down the street, we were still getting really shitty internet service with vastly different speeds throughout the day and many periods of downtime. Technically, TMobile home internet is not available in this place, but I ordered it to a place that is and now I get a solid 50-75mbit all day long there. Now, it's the Tmo network so it is NATed, no incoming connectiongs, and outgoing connections that are idl longer than 5 minutes get killed. So if you want to do fun networking stuff on it, you have to get creative with reverse proxies and have access to other stuff out on the internet. But, if you just want to stream TV and check your email and whatever out in some little town, it works fine. My "uncle-in-law" (is that a thing?) had a bunch of issues with his DSL so I got him the TMo home internet up there, too, where they keep teasing that it's "coming soon". He loves it.

Oh yeah, I just use my normal dd-wrt'd router behind TMo's for some double (triple?) NAT goodness. Works fine. It's just easier to manage devices with the custom router.
The TMo one's wifi and everything is disabled.

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: MRO to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 09 2023 16:40:08

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Tracker1 to Phigan on Sun Jul 09 2023 02:11 pm

The IP protection companies hired to track torrents will generally
track magnet links and the torrent hosts themselves for feeds
concerning things named with their IP. So they won't be tracking an
Ubuntu ISO, unless that ubuntu iso is via a link named
"Captain.Marvel.2019..." or similar.

dude, i got a letter for downloading a torrent of the wow client.
and i'm like they give that shit away for free. i just wanted to get it faster without going through all the updates.

That's because Activision/Blizzard sucks...


--
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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 09 2023 18:33:00

If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent
alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than
wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.

What?? LOL

So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at
least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?

What if I'm not home (and my cellphone is with me). How do things work then?

No, they have dedicated cellular modem/routers that are meant for home use. They also have plans for these devices that cost much less than equivalent data usage on a cell phone plan.

Come on man.

Really?!?


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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Khronos on Mon Jul 10 2023 20:22:00

Ahhh, OK. Didn't know about that. Sounds like a significant cost, for likely crappy performance, and not being able to use the custom router that I'm using now. Not even a remote chance of such a thing happening.

A friend is getting a pretty consistent 80-100mbps down and 10-15 up on his, which is significantly better than the alternative (DSL) for his area. As I mentioned will really depend on the coverage to your home.


--
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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Tracker1 to MRO on Wed Jul 12 2023 03:12 pm

dude, i got a letter for downloading a torrent of the wow client.
and i'm like they give that shit away for free. i just wanted to get it faster without going through all the updates.

That's because Activision/Blizzard sucks...

it's because they hire these bottomfeeder companies who get paid pennies to hop on torrents and report them to isps.

i rarely torrent at home. it's just better to use a seedbox.
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Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to Moondog on Wed Jul 05 2023 01:34 pm

Re: Which VPN?
By: Moondog to Phigan on Tue Jul 04 2023 10:36 am

They want your money, however they want manage their own network without government intervention. In order to keep autonomy, they must demonstrat > > to regulatory agencies they are self policing.

Sure, I get all that, but I still haven't seen it happen. Plus, there is ple > getting a notification from a lawyer first?

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From a network administration perspective, bittorrent is evil incarnate. A bittorrent client generates multiple connections which take a lot of bandwidth.That is a higher strain for networking equipment than just downloading a file
from a website. I have seen bittorent clients bring down LAN segments because they overloaded the QoS queues of their upstream router.

ISP hate torrent because ISP oversell more bandwidth than they have and a smallammount of torrenters places a lot of stress on them.

And they don t care if you are sued or whatever because most likely you are going to have to hire an ISP anyway.

--
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Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to Tracker1 on Wed Jul 05 2023 02:01 pm

Personally, I recommend against using torrents at all. All the stuff is on u

Torrent over I2P works fine.

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to paulie420 on Thu Jul 06 2023 12:40 pm

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: paulie420 to Phigan on Wed Jul 05 2023 08:55 pm

I get a letter on xfinity anytime I torrent w/o a VPN. Standard issue.

What's the gist of it? Is it just from them or do they say they were notifie >
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What I have heard is copyright holders hire agents to pester torrent swarms andcover for movies which they deem worth protecting (which I guess are the recentones). These agents locate torrent swarms for those movies, join as a regular
downloader, notice which peers are members of the swarm and then register whichones can be threatened.

Not much of an issue in Spain. Spanish movie industry does not have much worth pirating and I don t think we are gonna do the work required to protect foreigner movies.

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Moondog to Phigan on Fri Jul 07 2023 11:14 am

There's legitimate purposes for torrent clients. The ISP can see what you'r > downloading and determine if it's a linux distro or a movie

Lots of torrent users nowadays use encrypted leases. What you are downloading isn t exactly a secret but I doubt it is easy for an isolated ISP to learn whatyou are downloading.

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Jul 08 2023 05:08 pm

arent vpns usually much much slower, though?
i wouldnt want to stream movies on a vpn.

I don t know about full VPN solutions. Setting an http/https proxy on a server in a remote datacenter certainly seems to do the trick*

* you have to ensure your proxy is not adding headers to your connection that give away your real IP, though.

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: paulie420 to Phigan on Sat Jul 08 2023 05:33 pm

Xfinity (attempts to) snoops so badly that they send a letter with t > Ph> > of what you downloaded! Something to the effect of (from memory):

Woooow, that really sucks. I'm pretty glad there is usenet :).

I mean... nothing that a VPN or proxy doesn't quash easily. Then, with all t >
Hell, throw everything behind Tails or TOR if yer really paranoid and be don >
I've created a separate torrent machine that only does that. I can text mess > older.

|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

Tor sucks for Torrenting.

First of all, it is abusing a chronically overloaded network run by volunteers by ussing an agressive protocol that is known for overloading networks.

Then, Tor is only good for delivering outgoing connections, so you won t seed any of the files you download and your download performance will suck.

Finally, Tor is good for TCP only and therefore has information leaks that sellyou away, and the Tor dudes expresely say so.

Best anonimity layer for torrents these days is I2P, in my opinion. Its main drawback is you will get dial-up speeds.

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 09 2023 06:33 pm

Tracker1 wrote to Gamgee <=-

In my area, or at least the location of my house, that is not an option > Ga> assuming one wants broadband/cable internet access. Yes, that's right,
there are still plenty of monopolies allowed to do business. My ISP (a major/nationwide one) is one of them.

If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent
alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than
wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.

What?? LOL

So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet
access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at
least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?

What if I'm not home (and my cellphone is with me). How do things work then?

Come on man.

... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52

Many ISP will give you a router with 4G capability. You just connect all your home stuff to it as if it were a regular ADSL or fibre subscription.

It sucks because, being a cellular network, the quality of the connection won tbe steady and you are likely to be subjected to datacaps. Still, it is an
option for some people.

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Khronos on Mon Jul 10 2023 08:22 pm

Ahhh, OK. Didn't know about that. Sounds like a significant cost, for likely crappy performance, and not being able to use the custom router
that I'm using now. Not even a remote chance of such a thing happening.

People who use this things usually do for one of the following reasons:

* They live in an isolated area where no ISP will ever bring cabling.
* They want a router they can carry arround so they can build a mini LAN aroundit without having to call the ISP every time they travel in order to get a
cable.

People like me are the primary audience for the first type. I am lucky because there is a Wimax provider. Wimax subscriptions are much slower but their quality of service is very steady.

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gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Arelor to Phigan on Thu Jul 13 2023 12:37 pm

From a network administration perspective, bittorrent is evil incarnate. A bittorrent client generates multiple connections which take a lot of bandwidth.That is a higher strain for networking equipment than just downloading a file
from a website. I have seen bittorent clients bring down LAN segments because they overloaded the QoS queues of their upstream router.

well your network administrator needs to go take some classes.
that should not happen. and the default settings of torrent clients wont really bring anything to its knees.

ISP hate torrent because ISP oversell more bandwidth than they have and a smallammount of torrenters places a lot of stress on them.

everyone streams nowadays. i'm sure if they have concerns they are more worried about that.
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Re: Which VPN?
By: Arelor to Phigan on Thu Jul 13 2023 12:37 pm

From a network administration perspective, bittorrent is evil incarnate. A bittorrent client generates multiple connections which take a lot of bandwidth.That is a higher strain for networking equipment than just downloading a file
from a website. I have seen bittorent clients bring down LAN segments because they overloaded the QoS queues of their upstream router.

Isn't part of the point of BitTorrent to help you get the most speed by connecting to many different people offering the same file?

ISP hate torrent because ISP oversell more bandwidth than they have and a smallammount of torrenters places a lot of stress on them.

I haven't heard this, but I'd think that rather than ISPs complaining about it, they could make their network better.

And they don t care if you are sued or whatever because most likely you are going to have to hire an ISP anyway.

What do you mean by "hire" here?

Nightfox

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Re: Which VPN?
By: MRO to Arelor on Thu Jul 13 2023 05:08 pm

ISP hate torrent because ISP oversell more bandwidth than they have
and a smallammount of torrenters places a lot of stress on them.

everyone streams nowadays. i'm sure if they have concerns they are more worried about that.

How is that realted to BitTorrent use? Sure, people sometimes download movies & TV shows via BitTorrent, but that isn't BitTorrent's only use. A lot of Linux distros are offered for download via BitTorrent.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Arelor to Gamgee on Thu Jul 13 2023 01:07 pm

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Khronos on Mon Jul 10 2023 08:22 pm

Ahhh, OK. Didn't know about that. Sounds like a significant cost, for likely crappy performance, and not being able to use the custom router that I'm using now. Not even a remote chance of such a thing happening.

People who use this things usually do for one of the following reasons:

* They live in an isolated area where no ISP will ever bring cabling.
* They want a router they can carry arround so they can build a mini LAN aro cable.

People like me are the primary audience for the first type. I am lucky becau there is a Wimax provider. Wimax subscriptions are much slower but their quality of service is very steady.

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gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

I live in a rural area, and broadband is non-existant. Comcast will not run c able in places where there are less than 20 houses per mile. There are 5 houses on the 1 mile section of road I'm on. Cell reception is crap because the carriers won't put up towers in the middle of nowhere. I have to use satellite, and the area is rolling hills so line of sight WISP is
non-existant. In the township north of me they gt grany money and Midwest Ene rgy ran fiber all over the township. I'm a half mile on the wrong side of
the township border. I'm hoping my township follows through and applies for the grant money to run fiber. My neighbor down the road tried out a T-mobile
5g gateway, and they couldn't get a solid enough signal.

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Jul 13 2023 04:57 pm

Re: Which VPN?
By: MRO to Arelor on Thu Jul 13 2023 05:08 pm

ISP hate torrent because ISP oversell more bandwidth than they have
and a smallammount of torrenters places a lot of stress on them.

everyone streams nowadays. i'm sure if they have concerns they are more worried about that.

How is that realted to BitTorrent use?

because HE said:

ISP hate torrent because ISP oversell more bandwidth than they have
and a smallammount of torrenters places a lot of stress on them.

and i said what i did because streams take up a lot of bandwidth.

but that isn't BitTorrent's only use. A
lot of Linux distros are offered for download via BitTorrent.

when most people think of torrenting, they think of pirating.
that's why years ago you could not run a legit torrent site with most reliable dedicated hosting providers.

torrents are a great way to save bandwidth for file distribution and game updating. unfortunately a lot of people don't forward their ports, or are unconnectable for othe reasons.
there's a lot of dumb people out there. when i ran bbstorrents i had people download all the files 5-6 times. I have no idea why. it's like they didn't know where the files went.
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HusTler wrote to All <=-

@VIA: PLANETCA
@MSGID: <64A174DD.17823.dove-hlp@vert.synchro.net>
Hi all. Which VPN service do you use?

I use ProtonVPN. You can test their free access, their client is free
software, their customer service is knowledgeable (about GNU/Linux at least) and the price I got was interesting (during a special pricing period). They are based in Switzerland, so you can P2P all you want, it's legal.
The downside?
Your Internet throughput is going to be lower than what you get without ProtonVPN. Apart from that, I heard very good things about Mullvad.

I use a VPN because where I live, everyhthing is logged and kept forever
in an "extralegal" manner, which I really don't like.

When it comes to downloading, I use IRC (just take a look at Wikipedia's
XDCC article). Low retention, but you can request stuff and usually get awesome download speeds. Remember: copying is not stealing :)

... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Moondog to Arelor on Thu Jul 13 2023 10:01 pm

of
the township border. I'm hoping my township follows through and applies for the grant money to run fiber. My neighbor down the road tried out a T-mobile 5g gateway, and they couldn't get a solid enough signal.

are you sure they gave him a 5g gateway? they would only let me try out a 4g gateway which was useless to me

that's too bad you live out there, you hve to pray for the tesla blimps.
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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Shanen to HusTler on Wed Jul 12 2023 10:27 pm

When it comes to downloading, I use IRC (just take a look at Wikipedia's XDCC article). Low retention, but you can request stuff and usually get awesome download speeds. Remember: copying is not stealing :)

yeah it is.
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Re: Which VPN?
By: Arelor to Phigan on Thu Jul 13 2023 12:37 pm

From a network administration perspective, bittorrent is evil incarnate. A bittorrent client generates multiple connections which take a lot of bandwidth.That is a higher strain for networking equipment than just

It's actually the broadcast traffic that makes the big difference. Regular routed TCP traffic is fine, that is what the neworking equipment was made to handle, but torrents attempt to be decentralized so make a lot of broadcast noise to find other torrent clients nearby. I suppose if you had enough of them on one "local" network it might generate enough to crash crappy equipment :).

In the US and A, most of the bigger ISPs seem to go the "we'll take care of it" approach to the DMCA requests, which is preferable to the alternative.

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Arelor to Phigan on Thu Jul 13 2023 12:38 pm

Personally, I recommend against using torrents at all. All the stuff is o

Torrent over I2P works fine.

"See, Marge, I told you I could deepfry my shirt."

"I didn't say you couldn't, I said you SHOULDN'T."

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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Arelor to Phigan on Thu Jul 13 2023 12:43 pm

What I have heard is copyright holders hire agents to pester torrent swarms andcover for movies which they deem worth protecting (which I guess are the recentones). These agents locate torrent swarms for those movies, join as a regular
downloader, notice which peers are members of the swarm and then register whichones can be threatened.

That is exactly what happens here (in the US and A) except I'm pretty sure they don't discriminate with "worth protecting" and "which ones can be threatened". It's probably an automated process. ANY material copyrighted by said employer seen being distributed (uploaded, which happens when you torrent) gets a DMCA take-down request sent to the identified distributor (the ISP that owns the IP address seen uploading).

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Re: Which VPN?
By: MRO to Arelor on Thu Jul 13 2023 05:08 pm

well your network administrator needs to go take some classes.
that should not happen. and the default settings of torrent clients wont re >

Yes, it should not happen, but back then the client computer was rejecting ICMPsource quench pakets and was making way more connections than default. The
router had a weak CPU even back in the day and I think the traffic control system for QoS was using an stochastick Queue somewhere in the Queue tree. Those Queues respond very, very badly to surges of traffic that generate multiple connections at once because they try to provide networking resources equaly to every individual connection.

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Nightfox to Arelor on Thu Jul 13 2023 04:55 pm

Isn't part of the point of BitTorrent to help you get the most speed by conn >

ISP hate torrent because ISP oversell more bandwidth than they have and > Ar> smallammount of torrenters places a lot of stress on them.

I haven't heard this, but I'd think that rather than ISPs complaining about >

And they don t care if you are sued or whatever because most likely you > Ar> are going to have to hire an ISP anyway.

What do you mean by "hire" here?

Precisely, BitTorrent is about maximizing your capability of getting files, notabout being nice to the network infrastructure.

Infrastructure overselling is ubicuous in lots of fields. For example, water supplies in a condo are not prepared to satisty the sum of the nominal target preasures of every tap in the building. If you open all the taps in a condo at once you will find you don't get much water out of each. The reason is that whoever designs the water distribution system oversells water supply capacity and assumes only a percentage of users will open their taps at a given moment of the day.

This also applies to power distribution.

And yes, if you misscalculate and oversell so much that your system crumbles under the load, it is your fault for doing a bad estimation and you should fix it. Still, a user leaving all his taps open to the max all day would be nevertheless a bad neighbor.

Hiring an ISP here would mean getting an Internet Subscription.

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Arelor to Nightfox on Fri Jul 14 2023 08:51 pm

likely you are going to have to hire an ISP anyway.

What do you mean by "hire" here?

Hiring an ISP here would mean getting an Internet Subscription.

Ah. Generally I don't hear people say they "hire" an ISP.

Nightfox

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Nightfox to Arelor on Sat Jul 15 2023 01:41 pm

Ah. Generally I don't hear people say they "hire" an ISP.

In Spain you "hire" an ISP. What you don't do is get an "ADSL Subscription" from an ISP. XD

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Arelor to Phigan on Thu Jul 13 2023 12:37:20

From a network administration perspective, bittorrent is evil incarnate. A bittorrent client generates multiple connections which take a lot of bandwidth.That is a higher strain for networking equipment than just downloading a file

More than the bulk of people using Netflix or YouTube? I mean, yeah it's async service at the user level, but the connections at the ISP are generally duplex connections. My understanding is that streaming video is the *VAST* majority of network traffic. Torrents are a bit more bursty, but that can be throttled via QOS. Not to mention that torrents are often better compressed content than streaming video, for compatibility with legacy streaming devices.


--
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tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Tracker1 to Arelor on Sun Jul 16 2023 12:10 am

More than the bulk of people using Netflix or YouTube? I mean, yeah it's as > . Torrents are a bit more bursty, but that can be throttled via QOS. Not t >

When you stream a video from a server, you make a limited and contained number of connections to that server.

A Bittorrent client tends to generate a connection to every peer it can find, and generates periodic broadcast traffic. Those are lots of intermitent connections that come and go. A stream from Netflix that uses all of your bandwidth uses less new connections than a torrent download that uses all your bandwidth. Every connection has to go into the packet filter before the routinggear can place it on fastrack (if using paket filters) and then certain QoS
disciplines tend to starve when required to work with multiple simultaneous connections.

My home uplink is quite limited and the difference shows. Youtubing max speed generates less impact on the rest of the LAN users than torrenting. None of them maks the network unusable for the other users, but you do notice when somebody is trying to torrent anything.

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Re: Which VPN?
By: Arelor to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 16 2023 04:33 am

A Bittorrent client tends to generate a connection to every peer it can find, and generates periodic broadcast traffic. Those are lots of intermitent connections that come and go. A stream from Netflix that uses

there are set limits to this in every client to optomize the download and seeding.
it does not max out a computer or networks abilities.

My home uplink is quite limited and the difference shows. Youtubing max speed generates less impact on the rest of the LAN users than torrenting. None of them maks the network unusable for the other users, but you do notice when somebody is trying to torrent anything.

that's probably because of the outgoing connections. and your connection
and network probably sucks.
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Re: Which VPN?
By: MRO to Arelor on Sun Jul 16 2023 06:41 am

that's probably because of the outgoing connections. and your connection and network probably sucks.

Yes, my home connection sucks. This is public knowledge.

Some people changes their torrent client settings to non-nice mode, which is where problems lay.

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You need to decide on your own. Read this top to bottom then compare to what you've learned recently then pay anonymously. https://torrentfreak.com/best-vpn-anonymous-no-logging/
-Xanth

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